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Thread: Bracket racing

  1. #16
    MOCGB Paid Member sportsroof's Avatar
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    And Mr Sports Roof what exactly is not real racing about Drag Racing?
    Many forms of motorsport like drag racing, sprints, hillclimbs and others only require a 'speed' licence. You said so in your post.
    Circuit racing requires a racing licence which is a bit more involved. That is simple fact. The Motor Sports Association (MSA) sets these standards.
    Opinion is different and to me, and many others, two vehicles racing from standstill over a very short distance is not much of a race. Never more than one car next to you.
    No corners to test driver skill.
    Only done in good weather conditions
    Only done in dry weather conditions
    Only done on straight, level, smooth track
    Etc, etc.
    If it helps, I did spend years myself drag racing so I can speak from experience. I loved drag racing when I first went to see it and for years afterwards but the novelty wore off and I saw how badly it was run. Many of my friends found the same thing and it turned them off it. Racing is much better run and far more fun but I realise we are not all the same. I need more than a few 11 second drag passes a weekend for my money and effort, even Sprinting puts you on track for longer in ONE run than a weekend of drag racing, and you normally have 5 or 6 runs in a day. Racing puts you on track for longer in one day than 2 or 3 years of drag racing!
    Don't get me wrong, if you enjoy drag racing, go for it. But I started because everyone said Musclecars were made for it, and they can't be made to handle etc. I would like to think that now, US car owners could make a more informed choice and realise that drag racing is not the only option.
    I'll do a deal, no more knocking drag racing from me and nobody calls circuit racing 'roundy-round' which seems a common term used on US car forums.
    Cheers, Martin
    Last edited by sportsroof; 18-02-2016 at 09:59 AM.

  2. #17
    MOCGB Paid Member mattmoxon's Avatar
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    The lack of corners does not reduce the skill involved in driving a car in a drag race. Maybe the actual car control needed at my level (Sportsman ET) is not as high as it would be even doing one lap of an average circuit as fast as physics will allow but once you start moving up through the classes it becomes a different ball game entirely. The vast majority of my skills is in the tactics needed to actually win the race (which I am failing at at the moment )

    I’d love to move up a class or two but sadly it is cheaper to buy and run a small aeroplane (I kid you not) which is what I plan to do in the long term.

    The roundy-roundy term, at least from me is only a bit of banter rather than a dig (though I appreciate it isn’t from some). I seem to be one of the few drag racers that does appreciate the skills and the effort that goes into other kinds of motors sport (not just circuit racing). But to call drag racing “not proper racing” is a bit off imho, which is why I responded.

    To each his own.
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  3. #18
    MOCGB Paid Member sportsroof's Avatar
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    But to call drag racing “not proper racing” is a bit off imho, which is why I responded.

    To each his own.
    We will agree to differ then. And I will lay off the drag racing snipes. That's cool.
    I hope you manage to achieve your desired level, having been there yonks ago I probably know how you feel.
    Cheers, Martin

  4. #19
    Super Moderator mach1mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sportsroof View Post
    Only done in good weather conditions*
    Only done in dry weather conditions*
    Only done on straight, level, smooth track*
    *Except in Cornwall

    Ran at Portreath during a proper Cornish down pouring of liquid sunshine

    Ran at Perranporth in storm force winds

    Former RAF Perranporth can be described as many things 'straight, level, smooth' is not one of them.

    Last edited by mach1mike; 19-02-2016 at 03:45 PM.

  5. #20
    MOCGB Paid Member tim65fastback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mach1mike View Post
    *Except in Cornwall

    Former RAF Perranporth can be described as many things 'straight, level, smooth' is not one of them.

    You're not wrong there Mike ! It can only be described as 'take off assistance' . As for the drag racing vs. circuit racing argument, its a shame. We are all racers, I appreciate both. I get a great rush out of my drag racing, always did. I'd love to try circuit, but would hate to damage the car through my own error, or someone elses 'red mist' descending while my car might be in the way. For that reason, quite like the look of 'time attack' where decent venues are involved, but you are only on the track on your own. I love a trip to the Goodwood revival, but cringe when some over-zealous driver ploughs car into another, or wipes down the side, referring to it as a 'racing incident'. I appreciate watching all kinds of racing, all except for F1 that is, which has been ruined by that little twit that runs it. I stopped watching it when Ratzenburger and Senna passed away on the same weekend. RIP to both of them
    So, if you value your car, but enjoy a bit of competition, drag racing has a great deal to offer. I'm sticking with it !
    owned since 1979

  6. #21
    MOCGB Paid Member mattmoxon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sportsroof View Post
    We will agree to differ then. And I will lay off the drag racing snipes. That's cool.
    I hope you manage to achieve your desired level, having been there yonks ago I probably know how you feel.
    Cheers, Martin
    Which 'drag racing' did you actually do then? I assume you didn't race in the Pro ET (11 second cars down to 9 second cars) National championship or PDRC Championship, just curious.
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  7. #22
    MOCGB Paid Member sportsroof's Avatar
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    Why do you 'assume' I did not race 11 second cars or National Championship?
    The 'drag racing' I did was various over a 12 year period. Mostly 'street' bracket racing which was of the 'dial your own' type. Not nice to be sitting in a 12 or 11 second car while a 15-17 second car drives away from you for what seems a lifetime before you get your light. Takes nerves to NOT redlight sometimes.
    Then as things got better (MUCH better IMHO) we switched to the '90 bracket' type racing, where you are grouped into one second brackets ie, 14.90, 13.90, 12.90 and so on. This follows on to the SuperGas 9.90 index. I raced in the 11.90 bracket and the good thing about this was there was a 'heads-up' start with obviously a breakout rule. This made it so much easier for the public to understand than the delayed type starts, coupled with a breakout. I often sat on the stands to watch and many times heard comments from spectators who didn't know what was going on. They thought some racers were just very slow off the line and then couldn't understand how they lost when they got to the finish first!
    TBH, apart from the racing I used the track time to develop my car (always a road car) and was already getting bored by the time the car was reaching it's target of 10's (11.02/125) and developing further would have compromised the road usage. It was fun but after a couple of unsavoury incidents I just got tired so took myself off to try Sprinting (which I believe is the Time Attack referred to by Tim) which was great fun.
    Oh, and if you think Sprints are safer than circuit racing, I would have to disagree there, having spent time doing both. Just my 2p as usual.
    Cheers, Martin
    Last edited by sportsroof; 22-02-2016 at 08:19 PM.

  8. #23
    MOCGB Paid Member mattmoxon's Avatar
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    Just the way you described it initially that's all, I've only heard those kinds of words said about non licensed race series and RWYB masquerading as racing. No offence/insult meant

    I know what you mean about comments on the banking from people that don't get bracket racing, especially when you have a 13.xx Mustang hunting down a 17.xx second VW Sharan people carrier (the wonders of Sportsman ET - you can race anything, its a very inclusive class). I don't mind sitting on the line waiting to be honest I just hold on the brakes and stare at the lights, going to early for me is largely down to the car not being able to go on any specific light (-0.18 red on the middle bulb and +0.25 green on the bottom bulb, both a loss.

    So far the only unsavoury incident I have been aware of in the time I have been racing is last years crash in the pits which nearly killed Des Taylor whilst he slept in his caravan, but then it wasn't at a race meeting so you do get more than your fair share of idiots at those.

    I hear you about the compromised road car, I can't go any faster than 12.00 because the car will need a roll cage built to spec which will make it hard to get in and out of in car parks.
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  9. #24
    MOCGB Paid Member sportsroof's Avatar
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    So far the only unsavoury incident I have been aware of in the time I have been racing is last years crash in the pits which nearly killed Des Taylor
    Sorry, I just don't believe you. Des Taylor can't be killed, we tried years ago! He's a looney from the past alright. Drove a mini van (the original) to us in South Wales from Yorkshire on a Saturday morning without ringing first, to buy a nitrous kit. We had none left, so I had to rob the one I had just fitted to a mate's car (the importer of the nitrous kits) so Des could have one. He turned up just as we were about to leave the unit so was very lucky that day! Long time ago now......
    Unsavoury incidents too many to mention but one or two really stood out and turned me right off. Best not discussed here.
    My 2016 Race licence arrived today so I'll be busy now...
    Cheers, Martin

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  11. #26
    Guest ALLAN R's Avatar
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    I can see some digs here at drag racing. I've been going to watch drag racing since the mid 70's and then went to the world finals in California in 78 to see the professionals in action and to support the UK man Clive Skilton. I find it an amazing form of racing, where else can you see a rocket car and the nitro burning engines are just something else, there is nothing like that power in any other form of racing except drag boats, which I intend to go an watch soon on one of my trips to the USA. This said it is a shame it has not caught on more professionally here in the UK and I do agree that those that have run drag racing in the past haven't quite got it together. The only form of drag racing I don't like too much is the index running classes. In the states the endless Super comp dragsters running to an 8.9 index where the motor shuts down after launch before picking up to get the time. I see this as a bit pointless but its a good time to visit the pits then - something that's not always possible with track racing. My father was a keen motor sports fan and I remember going to many meetings with him where track racing was very processional with very little passing. In fact GP racing has been criticesd a lot and its only the DRS, which is an artificial passing mode that makes it more interesting.
    Allan

  12. #27
    MOCGB Paid Member mattmoxon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALLAN R View Post
    I can see some digs here at drag racing. I've been going to watch drag racing since the mid 70's and then went to the world finals in California in 78 to see the professionals in action and to support the UK man Clive Skilton. I find it an amazing form of racing, where else can you see a rocket car and the nitro burning engines are just something else, there is nothing like that power in any other form of racing except drag boats, which I intend to go an watch soon on one of my trips to the USA. This said it is a shame it has not caught on more professionally here in the UK and I do agree that those that have run drag racing in the past haven't quite got it together. The only form of drag racing I don't like too much is the index running classes. In the states the endless Super comp dragsters running to an 8.9 index where the motor shuts down after launch before picking up to get the time. I see this as a bit pointless but its a good time to visit the pits then - something that's not always possible with track racing. My father was a keen motor sports fan and I remember going to many meetings with him where track racing was very processional with very little passing. In fact GP racing has been criticesd a lot and its only the DRS, which is an artificial passing mode that makes it more interesting.
    I can understand some peoples frustration with index racing but without it hundreds of people that do race wouldn't be able to, I'd love to be able to race heads up. Sadly to race heads up in a door car (dragsters are no doubt fun but I am a door car guy) and to be competitive in the UK you need to be spending six figures on a car, plus all the support kit, and several seasons to gain experience in tuning the car and yourself to get anywhere near. I enjoy index racing because I enjoy the tactics and the complexity of setting the car up and dialling it
    “the ambient temperature goes up 2 degrees F that means I need to change my dial in from 13.41 to 13.42, ahh but the humidity and pressure has also changed so I need to change it to 13.40 etc.” It is a lot more complex when you are in the car than watching. I used a 30 quid weather station off eBay (the sort that sits on your desk/windowsill) and a spreadsheet to calculate the dial in.

    There aren't as many pro-class cars (there are plenty of Pro-Mods) in the UK/Europe because there simply isn't the money to fund it as there is in the US; though that isn't as much as it used to be so people don't do it, you can't run a Top Fuel car or Top Alcohol car on a shoestring, and as for Pro-Stock, well that is even more expensive than any of the other Pro-Classes.

    I decided to hang my helmet up (it is actually for sale ) last year not just because I want to fly more, I find flying more enjoyable; but then as a small boy you wouldn't have found a single picture of a car of any sort on my bedroom walls. But also because I have reached an impasse with racing; quite simply I want to move on from Sportsman ET and go faster, but I cannot afford to do so (even without flying) and after a few experiences last year at SPR; if I ever return to racing it will have to be in a Pro Class (Pro-Modified) in a dedicated race car.

    I have to say I am one of the critics of DRS, surely if a mechanism is required to allow cars to overtake each other the race class as whole is fundamentally flawed, after all it hasn’t really shifted the balance much in the racing, the top constructors are always there or there abouts. I went to watch some racing at brands hatch many years ago, one of the classes that raced was the Clio Cup. Now for the drivers I am sure it is exciting, but for spectators it’s a precession as generally they would finish in the same order they got through the first couple of corners in, unless somebody made a mistake or broke a car.
    Last edited by mattmoxon; 16-02-2017 at 09:07 AM.
    2006 GT in Redfire metallic with 18" polished alloy Bullit style wheels and a few non standard tweaks

    Build Thread: Build thread ruined by photo bucket.

    Best ET so far at York Raceway: 13.0920 @ 103.71mph

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