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    #16
    In my world, 'numbers matching' doesn't necessarily mean the VIN is shown on other components than the frame of the car. I suppose that in a late '68 Mustang on that would indeed be the case, but the term 'numbers matching' in the classic world in general means that the individual component serial numbers have not been changed from the numbers recorded on the build records - i.e. the numbers match the manufacturer's record, not each other. For example, my XK140 has an engine number stamped on the block which bears no relation to the chassis number, but is the same as the number Jaguar have in their records. The same number is stamped on the head, too, and is important in this case because it not only ties that head to that engine, which is in turn tied to that chassis, but it identifies it as a 'C' type head which changes the value a fair bit. Similarly gearbox and rear axle have their own numbers, which still match those on the JDHT certificate.

    I wasn't aware Mustangs had any numbers on gearbox or axle either. My '68 hasn't. Or engine number, come to that...

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      #17
      Originally posted by rsk289 View Post
      In my world, 'numbers matching' doesn't necessarily mean the VIN is shown on other components than the frame of the car. I suppose that in a late '68 Mustang on that would indeed be the case, but the term 'numbers matching' in the classic world in general means that the individual component serial numbers have not been changed from the numbers recorded on the build records - i.e. the numbers match the manufacturer's record, not each other. For example, my XK140 has an engine number stamped on the block which bears no relation to the chassis number, but is the same as the number Jaguar have in their records. The same number is stamped on the head, too, and is important in this case because it not only ties that head to that engine, which is in turn tied to that chassis, but it identifies it as a 'C' type head which changes the value a fair bit. Similarly gearbox and rear axle have their own numbers, which still match those on the JDHT certificate.

      I wasn't aware Mustangs had any numbers on gearbox or axle either. My '68 hasn't. Or engine number, come to that...

      Not doubting what you say, but assuming your car has the 302, might be worth looking behind the intake manifold, on a horizontal machined pad at the top rear of the block, that's where my vin is stamped. Stamping could easily be filled in with paint etc if engine was painted. Paul.

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        #18
        Originally posted by phil k View Post

        Paul, this still doesn't make the car "numbers matching" Believe me when I say I've had plenty of 68 Mustangs through the workshop and none of them have numbers stamped on the rear end or the transmission.

        Phil
        Phil, heres PART of the Mecum Auctions entry form relating to entering a numbers matching car for auction and legal declaration etc. It only relates to engines, casting no's, date codes, matching of vin number to engine etc. They are not interested in other components, presumably because in a rare/and/or high end car, particularly musclecars, engines effect the investment price of the car. Its what they were all about A 69/70 for example Roadrunner, Charger, Superbird originally fitted with a 440 or 440 sixpack engine would not be worth the same price if the engine in the car was not the original one fitted, particularly a sixpack motor. If its the original, people know what they are getting, if not, that 440 could be out of anything Chrysler from a later Motorhome to amid sixties Fury etc, basically an unknown quantity horsepower wise. If its a 390 hp sixpack engine, with the vin stamped, its then original to that car. Price reflects.

        MATCHING NUMBERS SELLER


        Lot #: _________________ Auction: ___________________________


        I have declared that the vehicle I am selling, VIN _______________________________ is a “numbers matching” vehicle. I attest to the fact that I have personally inspected the numbers on the vehicle and confirm their accuracy. I understand that the generally accepted definition of the term “matching numbers” in the collector car market and for this transaction apply to:

        o Engine casting numbers o Engine casting dates o Engine assembly codes o Engine and VIN/serial derivatives

        All must be present in a manner consistent with the year, make and model of the vehicle. Further, I understand that the Vehicle Identification Number in some instances identifies a specific model or option, and that that the VIN of this vehicle is correct for the model and options represented. Any and all remaining numbers on the vehicle may not be applicable to this transaction or meeting the term “matching numbers.

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          #19
          Originally posted by INDY 500 View Post


          Not doubting what you say, but assuming your car has the 302, might be worth looking behind the intake manifold, on a horizontal machined pad at the top rear of the block, that's where my vin is stamped. Stamping could easily be filled in with paint etc if engine was painted. Paul.
          It doesn't. April '68 were still getting 289s. 289s have a recessed cast area at the back of the block - the only numbers I've ever seen stamped into a 289 block (i.e. on Cobra 289s) is down on the LHS of the block on a machined surface about half-way up.

          I presume Hipo-engined Mustangs got a number on the block too, but I don't know where - Mark will know.
          Last edited by rsk289; 09-10-2019, 02:10 PM.

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            #20
            One I checked recently was on drivers side below the head, back of the block
            Please visit our Classic Mustang for sale site: www.classicamericancarsales.co.uk
            We stock a large selection of freshly imported Classic 1960s Mustangs. Fastbacks, Convertibles and Coupes. Cars are in stock in the Southeast of England with more shipping from the USA at all times. Other interesting American cars also stocked. CSRP disk brake setups sold

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              #21
              I was keeping out of this one
              HiPo or K code Mustangs had the VIN stamped on the block on the passenger side low down just above the oil pan join, near the front. K code cars also had the trans stamped with the VIN on the base of the main case. The rear end was not VIN stamped.

              I have pics of various K code stamps on engines and trans, but do not know how to post pics anymore.

              I recall instances on the old High Performance Mustang site of one or two folks posting that their HiPo Mustang that had been in the family since new and was unrestored did not have a VIN stamped motor. These posts were nearly always met with suspicion, most likely the motor was blown up 40 years ago and time erased the memory of the block being changed. Ford intended to stamp them all.
              sigpic
              You can never have enough black under the hood.

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                #22
                Just to add to Mark's post, whilst the HP or K code Mustangs had the VIN stamped on engines, the Cobra engine stampings were not the VIN. These seem to have been specific engine numbers, applied by Shelby American (I think - not Ford), and could be of one or two letters and a number, or just a four-digit number code. I don't know offhand if they were sequential or not, but as this doesn't apply to Mustangs I'll not write any more.

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