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    #61
    You're right about the first gen Leaf, someone I used to work with had one for a Demo a while ago, 40 miles was about it's real max across Derbyshire.

    Daughter in law has the Second gen, about 2 years old.
    The battery is bigger in that and the new current Leaf the battery is even bigger.

    They've had to keep their old Peugeot 2008 for long distances.
    She mainly had the Leaf as her employer (Local authority) has some E.V. only parking bays with free charging and she always struggled to park.
    Now she's guaranteed a parking spot.
    Additionally they pay a slightly higher mileage rate for E.V for business use.

    E.V is a stop-gap as far as I can see
    Stuart
    2014 GT/CS

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      #62
      Originally posted by G19 View Post

      Don't want to worry you but the extended range model MACH-E is said to be 370 miles RRP 50,190
      In the scale of the stupid SUV's she likes thats not toooooo bad
      Lets see real world range figures b4 I get another Mustang

      Comment


        #63
        I don't think its all about range, I think with an EV its a case of having to manage the "fuel store". I can get in my petrol car to do a long range journey with no fuel in the tank but I can stop at a petrol station and fully charge the vehicle in about 5 minutes. Also if the journey is longer than the cars range then I can stop at another petrol station and fully recharge in 5 minutes. Range and fuel planning just isn't an issue. With an EV forward thinking is necessary to ensure the vehicle is charged for the journey, and it is not really practical to recharge during a journey because of the charging time. Further there are presently not that great a number of charging stations in any particular area. Also the number of charging points with have to far exceed the present number of fuel pumps if EV's are going to become mainstream. My local petrol station has 8 pumps and if each car takes 5 minutes at the pump the station can fully charge 96 cars per hour. With EV's and 8 charging points that would probably be 8 vehicles in about 8 hours - there's just no comparison.
        Allan

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          #64
          Originally posted by ALLAN R View Post
          I don't think its all about range, I think with an EV its a case of having to manage the "fuel store". I can get in my petrol car to do a long range journey with no fuel in the tank but I can stop at a petrol station and fully charge the vehicle in about 5 minutes. Also if the journey is longer than the cars range then I can stop at another petrol station and fully recharge in 5 minutes. Range and fuel planning just isn't an issue. With an EV forward thinking is necessary to ensure the vehicle is charged for the journey, and it is not really practical to recharge during a journey because of the charging time. Further there are presently not that great a number of charging stations in any particular area. Also the number of charging points with have to far exceed the present number of fuel pumps if EV's are going to become mainstream. My local petrol station has 8 pumps and if each car takes 5 minutes at the pump the station can fully charge 96 cars per hour. With EV's and 8 charging points that would probably be 8 vehicles in about 8 hours - there's just no comparison.
          Thats a very good point Allan! If a motorway service station has say 10 points and an average quick charge is 30 minutes thats not a lot of cars per hour compared to the through traffic.
          Half the car park would have to be set up to charge if they become popular, and the cheap charge would soon be offest by having to put 30 minutes in a motorway cafe!

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            #65
            This was an interesting read the morning, specifically the carbon resulting from making batteries:

            https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/n...30HrjhaiYvYTDo

            I do wonder if many of these 'green' concepts only consider the last part of the lifecycle and ignore the full eco-impacts.

            Same debate with plastic. Plastic bags, yes they don't biodegrade and we have a problem with plastic pollution due to people throwing them away but actually paper bags are worse for the environment needing trees cut down (which is the original reason plastic bags were invented to "save the planet" from deforestation) and require lots of water to produce. Lots of companies replacing plastic bottles with glass, much heavier and therefore more CO2 in their transport.

            Same with Electric Vehicles, yes Electric cars are zero emission at the point of use compared to ICE, but what about the environmental cost to build, how is the electricity produced, what are the environment impacts to dispose of batteries etc.

            Must admit I don't like SUV's but surely part of the point of an SUV is the increased ground clearance offers the ability to drive over rough terrain, yes most are "chealsea tractors" but surely this Mach E being electric would never see any form of rough terrain use if it always needs to be near to civilisation for charging?

            '99 Bright Atlantic Blue Convertible (Stock) & '67 Acapulco Blue Fastback (393 Stroker)
            http://www.67mustang.co.uk

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              #66
              Must admit I don't like SUV's but surely part of the point of an SUV is the increased ground clearance offers the ability to drive over rough terrain, yes most are "chealsea tractors" but surely this Mach E being electric would never see any form of rough terrain use if it always needs to be near to civilisation for charging?
              To be honest I am not sure why Ford have called or labelled the MACH-E an SUV as it does not have much ground clearance and even at the presentation they remarked how low to the ground the actual vehicle was.

              How environment friendly will come down to how long the vehicle will last and you need to factor in so many different things including servicing (oil changes/brake disc/air filter) plus driving style (less use of brakes/brake dust).
              Editor Round Up
              2012 Dodge Challenger SRT8 6.4 Hemi Yellow Jacket
              2011 ROUSH Stage 2 Mustang
              1964.5 Vintage Burgundy 164hp 260ci V8 Convertible

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                #67
                Originally posted by Bearintown View Post

                Thats a very good point Allan! If a motorway service station has say 10 points and an average quick charge is 30 minutes thats not a lot of cars per hour compared to the through traffic.
                Half the car park would have to be set up to charge if they become popular, and the cheap charge would soon be offest by having to put 30 minutes in a motorway cafe!
                Last time I was at the M3 services at Fleet the EV's were queuing to recharge. ok more chargers would be better but you would need 100's of chagers to meet the demand in the holiday season. How many miles does a 30 minute charge give? I've never looked into this.
                Allan

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                  #68
                  Originally posted by ALLAN R View Post
                  How many miles does a 30 minute charge give? I've never looked into this.
                  In the region of 30miles charge per hour on a 32amp plug in supply, the normal public type chargers.

                  Obviously it depends on the weight and power of the car.

                  So a 30 minute stop at Services on charge would give you 15miles, just enough to get to the next services, in some locations

                  Stuart
                  2014 GT/CS

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by mad4v8 View Post
                    In the region of 30miles charge per hour on a 32amp plug in supply, the normal public type chargers.

                    Obviously it depends on the weight and power of the car.

                    So a 30 minute stop at Services on charge would give you 15miles, just enough to get to the next services, in some locations
                    Crazy! And no matter how you plan you are going to get into this situation at some point. Dont even start with traffic jams!

                    Comment


                      #70
                      I was watching a advert earlier claiming the end of petrol cars as the future is here with E.V capable of....200miles.
                      So at best that's realistically limited to 100miles round trips maybe 110 if you could grab a charge along the way.

                      I used to regularly do a 165 mile, one way non stop, trip to my Son's house in the wilds of Northumberland, I wouldn't want to do that trip with only possibly 35 miles spare.
                      There must be plenty of people that regularly do way higher that 200 mile one way trips.


                      This is all looking good, petrol is not going to disappear in the rest of my lifetime, neither are Internal combustion engines.

                      The AA and other breakdown services better exclude flat traction battery in their terms otherwise they're going to be busy shuttlng people around the Country.
                      Last edited by mad4v8; 12-01-2020, 02:51 PM.
                      Stuart
                      2014 GT/CS

                      Comment


                        #71
                        I have driven hybrid vehicles but never a vehicle that relies solely on it's battery. My understanding with the Mach-E the onboard computer will take into account driving style, distance to destination and map out the best route which will include available charging points if required during the trip. Other things which do effect the range of an all electric vehicle are climate (heating/cooling of the cabin) plus we all know battery life is reduced in cold temperatures, heavy acceleration/high speeds again will use more power. On the plus side the Mach-E does have regenerative braking which is capable of capturing and reusing more than 90% of the breaking energy and recharges the battery.

                        I am not sure if it's the same for all full electric cars but the Mach-E can be driven with just one pedal, as you take your foot of the pedal the car begins to slow down, this is a driver option which can be turn on and off via the computer.

                        Don't forget Ford are claiming with a fully charged battery the RWD with extended battery can do up to 370 miles.

                        As technology improves the way we drive will change, a good example is navigation systems which can now recalculate your route whilst driving if it becomes aware of congestion on your route.
                        Editor Round Up
                        2012 Dodge Challenger SRT8 6.4 Hemi Yellow Jacket
                        2011 ROUSH Stage 2 Mustang
                        1964.5 Vintage Burgundy 164hp 260ci V8 Convertible

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                          #72
                          Originally posted by G19 View Post
                          I have driven hybrid vehicles but never a vehicle that relies solely on it's battery. My understanding with the Mach-E the onboard computer will take into account driving style, distance to destination and map out the best route which will include available charging points if required during the trip. Other things which do effect the range of an all electric vehicle are climate (heating/cooling of the cabin) plus we all know battery life is reduced in cold temperatures, heavy acceleration/high speeds again will use more power. On the plus side the Mach-E does have regenerative braking which is capable of capturing and reusing more than 90% of the breaking energy and recharges the battery.

                          I am not sure if it's the same for all full electric cars but the Mach-E can be driven with just one pedal, as you take your foot of the pedal the car begins to slow down, this is a driver option which can be turn on and off via the computer.

                          Don't forget Ford are claiming with a fully charged battery the RWD with extended battery can do up to 370 miles.

                          As technology improves the way we drive will change, a good example is navigation systems which can now recalculate your route whilst driving if it becomes aware of congestion on your route.
                          Steve, Look up the Detroit Electric vehicle of around 1910. I think it was the origin of Brougham. I believe this had regenerative braking and single lever operation. It also had a 60 mile range, however one achieved 211 miles range. So in over 100 years we have made essentially very little progress with electric vehicles. In those days they were sensible and clearly labeled the car as an urban shopping trolley.
                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Electric
                          Allan

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                            #73
                            Guys, I have an electric car, its the Jag I-pace, i got it in September and have covered around 3000 miles i think. Most of the points brought up here are your assumptions as ICE owning drivers, I thought maybe you would prefer to hear the ownership experience from the horse’s mouth ( thats not a Mustang by the way). The stuff coming out from the manufacturers and Journalists is only true upto a point so, rather than you guys having to be lied to by both, hear it from me and at least you'll know its stated in good faith.

                            Most of the points raised above are Charging times, Range, and what to do on a long Journey, if your sitting comfortably ill begin.

                            You are looking at this all wrong, electric cars are not the solution to climate change they are "part of it"

                            Lets get this out of the way first, government has stated it will ban the sale of ICE cars in the future so we need to think about electric cars as part of the solution going forward.

                            Im sure by the time the ban comes in, electric cars will go as long as you want on a charge and be able to re charge as fast as 10 min stop at a petrol station but thats all in the future, whats the ownership experience now, I shall tell you.

                            As you can imagine there are plenty of groups for electric cars and a lot of what Im going to tell you comes from reading these to glean information from when I first got mine on order.

                            Charging times: These vary based on how large your battery system is, for example the one in the NIssan leaf is much smaller than the pack in the tesla and Jaguar so, charging times vary just on that alone.
                            If you assume the Jag is empty you can charge it one of the following ways:-

                            1. plug it into a 13 amp plug at home and it will take a day and a half
                            2. Have a home charger installed and cut that down to 8 hours
                            3. Plug it into a 32amp charger you might see in a council car park
                            4. Plug it into a fast charger on the road network, these also vary, there are many different companies offering chargers and the speed of the chargers vary, the ones you see at the motorway service stations are run by Ecotricity and are 5 years old, they charge at a rate of 50kw, per hour, that wont mean much to you as a number but, newer units from BP can charge at 100KW per hour, so twice the speed of the motorway units. There's another brand of chargers owned by mercedes, audi group called Ionity and they can charge at upto 300kw per hour. The older electric cars like the NIssan leaf have a maximum charge rate of 50KW, so even if you plug it into a faster charger, the car wont accept the faster charge. The Jaguar can charge at 100kw/ hr. This new Electric SUV from Ford can charge at 150KW/ hr.

                            So, as you can see its all clear as mud regarding charging times. For sure, each new car released im sure will have higher charging rates, otherwise Ionity would not have developed the 300kw charger.

                            Range: my cars stated range is something like 270m, in real life that’s 220m. the reason for the difference is using air con and stuff like that but the largest influence is regenerative breaking ( you all know what that means so I wont talk about it) if im driving the jag around town or on rural roads to and from work, the regen braking adds on average 20% to my range. If im on a motorway there’s hardly any breaking so im going to be 20% shorter than 270m stated. Add to that the wind resistance climbing with speed and the nett result is 200-220m in the Jag. There are no larger battery packs just the one car with different trim levels.
                            The new ford gives you more options, you can have the GT which has the same 4 wheel drive and 0-60 time of 4.5sec and short range of the Jag or you can go for the two wheel drive non sporty version and get over 350 claimed which I guess will be more like 260-270m but you loose acceleration to 6-7 secs, and add a bigger battery pack.

                            Long range driving: it’s a fact backed up by the groups I’m in that 8 out of 10 electric car users only charge at home, they very occasionally need to drive longer than the range of their car to and from home. For those people at least, range is no issue, this would suit people who commute say less than 80-100 miles a day, my commute is 12 miles each way, so I could run all week easy. I think this is the best use of the car, school runs, popping round to see friends etc, all the normal stuff that when you think about it doesn’t run to more than the range of the car. So, families with “range anxiety” could have an electric car for all the domestic running around and a nice, big, 5,0 Mustang for the longer trips on their holidays and roadtrips.
                            I’m using my car for work, most of my customers are withing the range of my car, for those that are not (ive got a few north of Manchester) I need to plan to charge the car. So when I drive there, I leave home with a full charge and then charge again at a fast charger, this might take me 40 mins or so but that’s my lunch break and gives me a chance to cover my e-mails as I’m on the road all day. Ive changed my hotels from Premier Inn to Holiday Inns as they have chargers there so I’m good to go in the morning.

                            So, take it from me, there’s no real issue unless your commute is higher than the range of the car and if you had a charger at work even that wont be an issue.
                            Other info you might like to know is cost of charging, the motorway fast chargers are quite expensive (compared to charging at home) most of them are between 30-35 p per KWatt, when charging at home youll pay 16p a K/watt , if you switch to an energy supplier that has a plan for electric cars its cheaper ( im paying 8p per KW ), If you plan carefully there are a number of charges that are free to use, for example if im going into London ( obviously I don’t pay congestion charge) I park under the Royal festival hall which has free to use chargers. BP offer free fast charges in some locations !

                            My 3000m has cost me under 100 in charging and my car is as fast and fun to drive as my Mustang!

                            Ian
                            Club Chairman
                            Current 2013 Boss 302 SBY Laguna Seca

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                              #74
                              Originally posted by big red one View Post
                              Guys, I have an electric car, its the Jag I-pace, i got it in September and have covered around 3000 miles i think. Most of the points brought up here are your assumptions as ICE owning drivers, I thought maybe you would prefer to hear the ownership experience from the horse’s mouth ( thats not a Mustang by the way). The stuff coming out from the manufacturers and Journalists is only true upto a point so, rather than you guys having to be lied to by both, hear it from me and at least you'll know its stated in good faith.
                              Ian
                              Club Chairman
                              Ian,
                              Nice try but I've got the real answer to EV shortcomings
                              Click image for larger version

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                              Allan

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                                #75
                                Hope that generator is running n Biodiesel
                                Stuart
                                2014 GT/CS

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